Forum:Is this cheating?
I bought Borderlands, and almost immediately started to Mod my weapons. Soon thereafter, I found myself just bypassing Red Weapons Chests, because I had a heavily modded Combustion Hellfire, so why even bother looking in chests, eh? Then the game stopped being fun, so I dropped all of my modded weapons on the ground and walked away from them. After hours and hours of gameplay, I finally EARNED a Combustion Hellfire. Here's the thing: This Hellfire is not equipped with a scope. If I were to take this gun into Willow Tree and add a scope to it, but not touch any other specs, would my fellow Borderlander's consider this to be cheating? In my opinion, this is no different than buying a new AR-15 and then adding an EO Tech gunsight, or buying a Remington 700, and then taking it to a gunsmith to have a 3x-9x scope installed. I've sworn off modding my guns, so the communities opinion on this matter is important to me. (I've never posted on a Wiki or on on any board before, so I'm not sure how to sign this thing. Sorry)PandoraChimp 06:17, December 30, 2009 (UTC)PandoraChimp From a technical standpoint, editing your save files with Willow Tree is cheating regardless of what you do with it. However, from an ethical standpoint, modifying your save file is not particularly bad unless you give yourself an unfair advantage by doing so. Adding a scope is probably fine, as long as it is not a particularly uncommon or rare type of scope. (Other examples of what I see as ethical save file modifying would be redistribution of skill points between games (without changing the total number of skill points), changing character name and/or color scheme, and changing your starting point - as long as it is a starting point you could access from within the game at that time.) Also, you can sign your posts with '--~~~~' --Volkai 07:00, December 30, 2009 (UTC) Thanks for the advice. For now, I'm going to keep it stock, because it just makes me feel uneasy to Mod the sights. Hopefully, I'll get some more input from other users. PandoraChimp 08:05, December 30, 2009 (UTC)PandoraChimp No its not cheating, its your game do whatever you want with it. If anybody has a problem then to bad. - AsianYouth ---- :To my mind, cheating is cheating. As you have noticed, getting a good scope makes a big difference in how you can use a weapon. If the fight's not at point blank range... Personally I beat the game to pt2.5 a couple times, then made a separate character I modded the crap out of. As you noticed, cheating takes a lot out of the game. If you're gonna cheat go big and crazy and just for fun, or don't bother. If you're not going to cheat, you constantly face agonizing decisions about which is the better weapon. The essence of the weapon upgrading game mechanic are the trade offs. Between damage, elements, accuracy, rate of fire, everything. Scopes are part of this trade off for weapons that come with and without. Scoped revolvers and machine guns are rare and especially valuable. Unscoped smgs are uncommon and especially handicapped. Even far into the game you should still be looking at new weapons. With a full arsenal, more money than you can spend and lots of bag space, you can keep several situational variations on your guns with minor differences. So for you have that unscoped hellfire. If the next hellfire you find is scoped and accurate but a little less damage and fire rate, keep both. Different guns for skags in your face and for bandits at mid-range. :All that said, the hellfire in general is crazy imbalanced as is, and sooner or later you'll probably want to use something else for the challenge. Save it for Try O'Clock. --Raisins 08:51, December 30, 2009 (UTC) i have a similar problem on xbox somone gave me a modded gun (that i cant use until i lvl) and they gave me a shield that i can make go up to hundred thousand shield hp but i cant get rid of it even if i didnt make it does it count as modding or cheating? (btw i didnt know it was modded until after he told me to pick it up) :Get far enough into the game and you should be able to tell what is or is not modded. Having a 1200-cap shield and finding a 1900-cap one is good luck (I found a nice Impenetrable Fortified last night), but having a 1900-cap shield and finding a 120,000-cap one.... you should know better whether people (like me) will think you are scum of Pandora. Looking at the item card pop-up when the shield is on the floor should be an obvious indication, since anything that gives you a hundred thousand capacity is probably spammed with "'Material_Pangolin_3'", iirc. :The only savefile-editing that I've done is up my backpack space to 200 because I'm collecting the rare/legendary/whatever weapons, but none of which are modded. It doesn't gameplay at all, since I only keep about five or six combat-active weapons with me at one time. --Nagamarky 10:27, December 30, 2009 (UTC) ::Of course, and that is out of question, this is cheating too. Dont raise yourself over someone who modifies his weapons when you did exactly the same thing: Something that is impossible in a legit way. Cocofang 14:37, December 30, 2009 (UTC) :::I don't need to raise myself over extreme modders to derive satisfaction, I'm just saying having more backpack space lets me add to my rare collection while keeping the weapons I would keep anyway. The only difference between giving myself 51 more Backpack SDUs, and not giving myself 51 more Backpack SDUs, is my rare collection. If dumping my rares and going back to forty-something capacity, while letting me keep my half a dozen active weapons anyway, makes me a player of better morals, then I honestly don't care about what you have to say in either scenario. Don't raise yourself over someone whose conceptual difference between fairness and equality, and the definitions of both, differs from yours. --Nagamarky 17:44, December 30, 2009 (UTC) ::::All you do is to differ between 'bad cheating' and 'not that bad cheating'. Doesnt change the fact it is cheating, does it? ::::It gives you an advantage in a illegitimate way normal players dont have. I give you the point that its not as gamebreaking as a modded superweapon but it still is. Cocofang 19:19, December 30, 2009 (UTC) ::Hehe, a 120k shield is pretty impressive... until you realize that many of my shots will ignore your shield entirely. Most of my wins in dueling were won in one or two shots. :) Pdboddy 13:51, December 30, 2009 (UTC) well i actually can make it go up higher i think i just havent tried because it looked like a money stature but i picked it up and it gives me money AND makes my shield go up it is called fortified inpenetrable but i never saw the info card on it because there is none it looked like plain ol' money plus i only make it go up to 20k at the most and i still get owned by stuff Yes, it's cheating, no matter what definition you use. However, a scope isn't going to ruin anyone's fun in multiplayer. The scope makes things moderately easier in single player, and I know well how useful the Hellfire is. Adding a scope using Willow Tree isn't exactly outrageous, compared to what you could do. And from your own testimonial, you got bored with modding, it wasn't as fun as you thought it would be in the end. And that's what a game is supposed to be, fun. Pdboddy 13:51, December 30, 2009 (UTC) ---- I would consider that as cheating, yes. You do something that is - no matter what you do - not intended by the game itself. And even if it was, you would use a shortcut, that is not intended by the game. On top of that the Hellfire guns are probably one of the most overpowered weapons in the game and really need to be patched. But that doesnt really matter here ... Cocofang 14:37, December 30, 2009 (UTC) ---- Well, In my opinion its not cheating. If you were using said scope to unfairly win duels against other players then yes you are cheating. But otherwise in my opinion you paid your own money for it so do what you want with it.--ADHD-Panda 03:18, December 31, 2009 (UTC) ---- No, it's not cheating, it's something that the game developers actually should have added to the game, seriously, maybe you have two SMGs, the unscoped one you like better, and one has a scope that you like but it's crap. You should be able to spend money or something else to put the scope on the SMG you like, but your weapon would take a minor decrease in power or firerate, or something like that. I had a Butcher with the two piece zoom scope, the shotgun one with two scopes on the barrel, I gave it to a friend and had him change it to the grenade launcher-like sights, the zoom was actually WORSE then what I had, but I simply liked it better for my playstyle. Is that cheating? No, it's customization referring to personal playstyle. So suck on that anti-modders! --ZylotheWolfbane 03:50, December 31, 2009 (UTC) :You mistake calling something cheating with being against modding. I'm not against modding. Counter Strike was a Half Life mod. There were some great mods for Total Annihilation. There've been some great ideas for Borderlands mods that have been discussed. And while you might be of the opinion that they should have allowed us to add things like scopes to the guns we find, the fact is they didn't. Scopes are randomly generated, just like the guns are. Therefore, to go into the game's files and edit them to add scopes is cheating pure and simple. Is it bad? Not necessarily. But, if by calling it "it's customization referring to personal playstyle" allows you to justify it, and enables you to sleep peacefully at night, by all means do so. :It's still cheating. :And saying that is not anti-modder. It's the truth, pure and simple. Pdboddy 14:02, December 31, 2009 (UTC) Go Zylo! way to stick it to the man! Rawwar13 20:29, December 31, 2009 (UTC) :Yarly, way to go! So modding is not cheating, its customization, is it? I see everything from a completely different angle now! Now, with that completely different point of view, i realize that i always wanted to max out all my skills. Too bad there are not enough skillpoints to do just this. Lets customize it! 106 skillpoints are just right to fit my needs. :If i think about it i want a shield with 20.000, a recharge of about 1000 and quick health regen. That would be very customized. Lets do it. Oh, and while i'm at it i'll give myself 50.000 HP. Sounds fair enough to me. And my weapon proficiencies are still to low. Lets make them all over the top. I want it that way. But now i need a fitting weapon for my customized character. Lets create one with 10.000 dmg per bullet. Neat. RoF about 100, infinite clip and amu, 100% acc, throwing grenades, dealing fire, acid and shock dmg at the same time and has target searching rockets attached. I sure like my customized weapon. Lets make some more! :But oh, what is that? Not enough storage. I want infinite storage! Time to customize. They should have included the possibility to do that anyway. I am sure this is just what the developers want me to do. Its so easy, it cant be wrong! Everyone can do that, so its totally fair! And if someone is complaining i don't give a damn. I play the game the way i want. They can't tell me how to play it, can they? I just customize it. My game, my rules. Absolutely rightful as far as i am concerned ... :I am even friendly enough to hack own games, so that everyone who joins gets infinite backpack-slots, money, shield and health as well. Do they want it? I don't care! Its my game. I payed for it. I can do whatever i ****ing want! There are no rules! And if there are any i customize them! Bye inferiority complexes, bye everyday worries, bye existence as a social outcast - I AM FRIGGIN GOD, MOTHER****ERS! :Hm ... now that i think about it with my new obtained, customized almighty and godly powers and immeasurable wisdom ... i always wanted to play a gigantic, fire-spitting tentacle-kitty with laser-beam eyes. I wonder if ... Cocofang 10:24, January 3, 2010 (UTC) ---- I'm actually sorry that I asked this question in the first place. I should never have even considered modding a scope to this gun. When I found this Combustion Hellfire, I was fist pumping happy. "Yes, yes, yes!!! I found me a real one!!!" If I modded this gun, then I would rob myself of the joy of finding an even better one down the road. Therefore, I agree with most of you that yes, adding a scope is cheating. Goodbye Willow Tree, forever! Thanks for your input, all. --PandoraChimp To add to this discussion again: In the last few days gaming through Game Ranger I have played with over 100 people. At least 50% of which used modded guns to completely dominate and ruin multiplayer. What's the point in playing if every time you just in a rough spot you pull out a TMP that does 1000 dmg and blow away an enemy that's bothering you?? I was just in a game with a decent player. He was doing fine on his own, although now that I think of it, his legit guns were probably still a bit modded. Anyway, every time 3 badass spiderants would show up in a row (we were farming Cauldron & Underpass) he would just pull out a crazy TMP and get rid of them. I kept asking him to stop and he didn't respond. He would respond to all other inquiries but wouldn't admit to using a modded gun. Another guy I played with the other day was playing with a modded gun and said why shouldn't I use it, a friend gave it to me. One long winded explanation of how it ruins multiplayer later he decided that he didn't care. I informed him that most people wouldn't want to play multiplayer with him and he said "I was wondering why people keep leaving my games." He then tried to say that the gun wasn't modded and his friend explained it was legit. I promptly left the game. Why is it that everyone who has a modded gun must play with it 24/7? I've had modded guns in the past and its not so much fun when all you have to do to kill an enemy is take one shot. Neither is it that fun when you don't have to worry about being downed because you have a TMP that will save your ass no matter what. Anyone that reads this and uses modded guns in multiplayer please note. Legitimate players don't want to play with your modded weapons... It makes the game no fun for us. On a side note, I've been accused that my S&S Crux shotgun is modded. Granted, it is one of the best I've found, with over 150*7 dmg and a 1.7 fire rate. I believe the reason people think it's modded is because I receive almost a 200% boost in fire rate. (100% through level 50 prof, 80% through commando mod, 20% from Metal Storm) So, if you see someone with a Commando mod that seems as if they've got a modded gun you may want to be sure before you accuse them. And that's the end of my rant. Now, if you want to use Willow Tree to max out your money or give yourself some new backpack space, that's cool. I'm also not against duping weapons you've found for another character (OF YOUR OWN). Don't create or modify weapons or items, don't dupe stuff for other people. And if you do, please for god's sake just use the crap in single player like the rest of us do. --Doctorgray 10:41, January 3, 2010 (UTC) ---- Since this topic (which seems mostly finished) has the title I'd put this question under... would you guys consider using willowtree/gibbed for the sole purpose of changing a character's colors cheating? Because there's an extremely limited color palette in-game, while the save file editors allow you to choose from the full spectrum. (I suspect I already know what the answer is, but I'm curious, since it's not actually altering anything that affects gameplay.) --Volkai 20:19, January 7, 2010 (UTC) :It's honestly quite fine with me if people change colors and stuff like that which don't affect gameplay, but apparently there are purists around who object to meddling with the game files at all. I've read one person blabbering about how as long as you have to use a save editor, you're cheating. :I'm just gonna say that if you don't mess with any numbers, you're cool with me. Now someone's gonna find some way to disprove that, but as far as my memory lets me, I can't think of any cosmetic changes that would be considered modding. --Nagamarky 06:09, January 8, 2010 (UTC) ::Depends on what definition you use for "cheating". If it is a very strict one it sure is. But no matter how you look at it, changing colours of your char doesn't affect the gameplay (too bad?) and won't give you an unfair advantage (beside the "advantage" you are more satisfied with the colours of you char). -- Cocofang 16:13, January 8, 2010 (UTC) :Changing the colour of your character wouldn't be considered cheating, unless you were making it so your character is see-through or invisible to other players. :P Pdboddy 18:28, January 8, 2010 (UTC) ---- I wouldn't say that it's cheating, but that's just me. If you want a scope, that's your choice. Just be prepared for people to not like it. Of course, if all you mod is a scope on, most people won't notice. I was lucky enough to find one with a scope.